Speaker 1:0:03Debartolo newtown bought guests. Welcome to another edition of the Bartholomew town podcast. I'm your host, Bill Bartholomew from our Providence Rhode Island studios. I sit down with you,
Speaker 2:0:17United States congressman David [inaudible]. David cicilline is the United States representative for Rhode Island's first congressional district, a position he's held since 2011 prior to being elected to Congress. Mr [inaudible] served as mayor of Providence. Our conversation focused on the congressmen's vocal opposition to many of the policies and statements made by President Donald Trump, his relationship with the other members of Rhode Island's congressional delegation, his take on the expanding range of voices within the Democratic Party and we talked about his own love for Rhode Island and his job as United States. Congressmen stay with Bartholomew town on Wednesday, September twelfth, Primary Day in Rhode Island. I'll be roaming about going from campaign headquarters to you, the voters, and we'll be out there with a camera crew and more follow me on twitter and instagram Ad Bill Bartholomew for some exciting coverage. You're supposed to be a hurricane as well, so lookout could get interesting. All right, let's get right to it. The one and only congressman David Cicilline,
Speaker 1:1:24we are here at the loft on Elmwood avenue with Congressman David cicilline. Thanks so much for your time this afternoon. Appreciate it. You're right across the street from my headquarters. I noticed that a few days ago as I was going by, I was like, alright, this is. This is familiar territory at the very least for you.
Speaker 3:1:40So you're here now. Essentially in a primary race, you know, we're, we're approaching with Wednesday rapidly. How you feel going into that? Well, I mean I think elections are very exciting and it's a great opportunity to sort of make your case to the people you represent to your bosses. You know that here's what I've done, here's what I'm committed to continuing to fight for. And a sort of. It's. I think it's a really important occasion for candidates and for people who are already in office to kind of take stock of what they've done with their priorities have been what's at stake in the elections. And so the campaign has been great and looking forward to the primary and hope to be successful and hope to be the Democratic nominee for Congress in the first congressional district. And assuming you are, you feel like you've had a chance to kind of convey to voters out there what you've already been up to these last years that you've been in Washington and, and sort of your vision for going forward here.
Speaker 3:2:42Well, I mean I think people are really engaged in a, in a way that actually have not seen in all my years in politics. I mean I think I've been really happy to see how deeply involved people are in, in our democracy, in our elections and people. I think after the locked him, Donald Trump. I think before that period people sort of believe we lived in a kind of self executing democracy that as long as you voted maybe worked on a campaign or contributed to, some of you really liked that it's sort of worked. And even if you didn't do any of that, I think people had a sense that this sort of democracy was sort of operating on its own and I think the election of Donald trump made people realize we don't live in a self executing democracy and if we're going to hold onto it, it will require the deep and sustained engagement of everyone.
Speaker 3:3:31And I think the good news is we're seeing that Oliver, Rhode Island all over the country where people really understand that it's important that their voices are heard during the elections and that they have a right to be heard in that priority should be reflected in the work being done by people who are elected. So I think, you know, assuming we can get through these difficult years with president trump, I think will end up in a better place because people will never again kind of take our democracy for granted and I think they'll remain very engaged in it and will be better for it. Right? It's a representative democracy, but not only you have to choose the representatives you want, but how their voices are going to be shaped, at least in theory. That's how it should work from the municipal level all the way up to the federal level and I always tell people, you know, it's really important that you vote and it's really important that you participate in the electoral process, but that's just part of it.
Speaker 3:4:19The other part is to make sure that you're holding the elected officials that you elect accountable and that that should happen throughout all of their work and they should be reporting back to you what they're doing. They shouldn't be listening to you and they should be accountable for what they're doing. And I think, you know, voting for them is not the end of the process. It's the beginning of it. Yeah. No. And as far as where you stand right now in your political career and you mentioning that this is definitely a specific time to say the least, you've taken a very vocal stand in general with your positions against president trump. You've been an advocate for a just general decency and human rights, if you will, of constantly on twitter. Do you feel like this particular election is sort of an opportunity for not only new voices but established voices to really make it clear where they stand in terms of this moment in history?
Speaker 3:5:14Yeah. I mean it's. It's hard to under a. it's hard to kind of minimize in any way what is on the ballot in this election because it's not only American leadership in the world. It's not only decency and respect for basic human rights and our rule of law, but things that matter very directly in people's lives is that is at stake in this election here as an administration and a president that has tried to strip away healthcare from tens of millions of Americans. They passed a piece of legislation called trumpcare and the House that would strip away health coverage to $28 million Americans. They passed a tax bill that will result in $30 million families losing their health insurance and premiums going up for just about everybody else and they're actually in court trying to take away coverage for preexisting conditions. So healthcare is on the ballot. You look at what the president had done with respect to tax policy, a tax cut where 83 percent of tax cut went to the top, one percent, create a $2,000,000,000,000 deficit.
Speaker 3:6:19And now they've passed a budget that pays for that tax, got by cuts to Medicare, social security and Medicaid. I mean, think about that. You're taking away really important programs to middleclass families and you're using that to pay for tax cuts for the richest one percent of the richest people in this country. So, tax policies on the environmental policy. This is a president and a Republican Congress that has rolled back important environmental protections, clean air, clean water, uh, development of renewable energy and tried to propose drilling off the coast of Rhode Island. So environmental policy is on the belt and you just go down the list. So this is, I know lots of politicians say this is the most important election of our lifetime. I really would argue that this actually is because if you think about the behavior of this president and this administration and the Republican Congress, if after the midterm elections, the Democrats don't bake, take back the house and the president can argue, look, the American people had their choice.
Speaker 3:7:16They didn't give Democrats the house. This elect, you know, they've kept Republicans in charge. This affirms my leadership. It empowers him to move forward at an accelerated pace and the Republicans will be even less willing to stand up and hold them accountable. And I think it's not a hyperbole to say that we'll lose this country in a fundamental way that many of the key values and one of the great traditions and institutions in the country will really, really suffer. So this is an important election. I hope all your listeners will participate and make sure their voices are heard.
Speaker 2:7:46One thing we've heard a lot on this program from voices from the within Rhode Island anyway, the spectrum of left to right, which admittedly for the most part, the right wing within Rhode Island is a bit more left wing than probably the rest of the country or other areas anyway, but one thing I've heard a lot is the affordable housing healthcare and economic disparity regardless of political position. It's a concern and it's just front and center and I think every gubernatorial candidates platform, no matter where they are right now, and it's. It's. You mentioned the so called fiscal conservatives in Washington, you know Larry Kudlow and these plans they've put forth, but yet at the same time it just takes away from the people who really need the economy to work for them right now more than anyone else. Do you agree with that? I mean, I think there's no question that we put
Speaker 3:8:34together an agenda and I was elected in the house, Democratic Caucus to be coach here, the Democratic Policy and communications committee along with Hakeem Jeffries of New York and a boost of Illinois. We were elected into the leadership to develop the agenda for House Democrats and to develop a communication strategy to bring us back into the majority, the selection and we, you know, uh, really answered the first question I have kind of what Democrats stand for and we came up with after a lot of listening and a lot of reflection that this is a pretty simple question to answer. Democrats stand for the people you know, there, there are a bunch of folks in Washington and, uh, work for the special interests, the very powerful multinational corporations, big lobbyists, the differences Democrats are fighting for the people of this country. And then we put together an agenda that would answer the question, well, what will democrats do to make my family's life better if you go back into the majority and are given the responsibility of leadership in the congress.
Speaker 3:9:30And we identified really three urgent priorities. First is to drive down healthcare costs, to drive down the cost of prescription drugs to protect preexisting condition coverage and make sure it's more affordable health care, more accessible for more Americans. We have a number of great ideas on how to do that. The Republicans, as I said, are trying to take it away. The second issue is promoting good economic growth that produces good paying jobs and raise his family incomes. Too many people in this country, too many people went on are working two and three jobs and just not making enough to get by and their wages have been stagnant while they seen, you know, the corporate ceos profits go through the roof, those companies, and they're just not making any more money and they just can't make enough. So raising feminine goes and with a real focus on rebuilding the country in a major effort to rebuild America, roads, bridges, ports, transit system, schools.
Speaker 3:10:21We have a trillion dollar plan. It will create $60, million good paying jobs, but, but really seriously investing in rebuilding our country. And the third priority is doing everything we can to attack the corruption in Washington, uh, you know, raising ethical standards, getting money out of our politics, reversing citizens, united, passing the disclose act. You know, people have a deep understanding that Washington is not working for them. It's working for the powerful, the well connected, and we have to demonstrate that we can do it a different way and get money out of our political system and get the government working for the people this country again. So I think you'll hear Democrats all across the country talk about those three priorities. I think they'll make a difference in people's lives. And uh, you know, I think those are the same kinds of issues I hear all across Rhode Island.
Speaker 3:11:09I listened to constituents, we have this, I don't want to call it a struggle because in many ways it's healthy. But within the Democratic Party in Rhode Island, it's existed since I was in high school, you know, whatever, 15 years ago, whatever it's been. This so called progressive versus old school established democratic movement. We see with candidates and different races and, and at the same time it's tough to draw a circle around everyone and say, all right, you're part of the Justice Democrats in your part of the old guard Democrats. But do you feel like this is a healthy vending process we're going through right now? It is healthy and exciting and great for the country and great for our party. Look, I've been traveling around the country campaigning for candidates who are running for Congress and these are spectacular candidates who were largely motivated after the election. Donald trump and sort of many of them never thought about running for office, but just thought, I've got to do something to stand up for my country and, and decided to run for Congress, great veterans and great women and business owners and just people who really fit their districts, who have real passionate about service and they range from very progressive people, uh, to more moderate Democrats, even some conservative Democrats.
Speaker 3:12:21And what I think is exciting is that we're going to have a. We have the most diverse caucus in the history of the Congress in the House Democratic Caucus. It's going to be larger and more diverse in the next congress. And that's great for us. It's great for the country. I think what will happen is that we'll have a really great exchange of ideas. Look, there's a real understanding about healthcare. We've got to expand access, reduced costs. There are a bunch of different ways to do that and so we're going to have people who are going to come to the cog August with their best ideas, their passion, and they're gonna make their case and will out of that process, we'll develop consensus as house democrats and will pass legislation. That's how it should work and that's great and I think we ought to be a party that invites everyone to be part of that process and we have to most importantly be a part of this in the majority so we can actually move forward on that and whatever the differences are on the edges, on any of these issues among Democrats, there are big differences between all the Democrats and the Republicans in Congress.
Speaker 3:13:12You know, on the healthcare issue there is, you know, people from single payer medicare for all to a public option. You know, there's a whole bunch the Republicans are trying to take away healthcare from tens of millions of Americans take away coverage for preexisting conditions, drive up premiums for everyone and not do anything about prescription drug costs. So there's just big fundamental differences and I look forward to being part of a majority where we can really come together and debate and argue and develop the best ideas that will benefit treating the American people and brought out. And there's that I serve. As you've traveled the country, do you feel that there's widespread momentum for change? Not just in the sense of all right, we're going to flip to from maybe a a republican to a Democrat in a particular house seat, but more even existentially than that, that hey, we need to evaluate values.
Speaker 3:13:59Do you find that? I think there's a very strong feeling that people have in every place I've visited around the country and in Rhode Island that they just have lost faith in the federal government. They just lost faith that Congress is capable or able to do anything to improve their lives. And in many ways they're right. You look at the last eight years under Republican control and you know, they haven't seen their wages gone, go up. They haven't seen the cost of college go down. They haven't seen real advancements on a number of important issues. So I think people's frustration is real and they've mostly seen the pervasive corrupting influence of money in our political system. And so I think it's very important not only when the Democrats take back the House that we, we demonstrate a commitment to those issues, but that we also conduct the business of governing differently.
Speaker 3:14:48I mean the Republicans have presided over the most closed congress in history with virtually no democratic amendments, no regular order where you have normal debate where you bring bills to the floor and vote on the map to you debate them. And so I think we can't operate the same way. We have to bring real transparency. We have to open up the process. We have to be willing to listen to colleagues on the other side of the aisle, let them offer their amendments and if they're good ones passing, if they're not rejecting them. But I think it will be a very big mistake if we behave the way they behaved. This government doesn't belong to us. It belongs to the people of this country and they ought to be watching it with pride and with confidence that we're doing in a way which is listening carefully, deliberating thoughtfully, and making decisions that are in the best interests of the people of this country and people are tired of the fighting and they're tired of congress not producing results which were improving their families' lives.
Speaker 3:15:41And I think Democrats have a very specific plan to respond to that and we just have to get the work done. If we're given the responsibility of leadership. Again, you feel like the democratic parties that are healthy position to expand this point, following the Hillary Rodham Clinton, Secretary Clinton, loss to Donald Trump and, and sort of just the Malays and, and just the everyone be down. No question about it from you feel like that that's been recovered from. And it's now about expansion. Not just recovery. I mean, I think people recognize, look, we're not victims of this democracy where participants and w, you know, the, the, the, the future of this country. And the direction we take is not dependent on Donald Trump is dependent on the American people and the decision we make, they make in this election and the decision they'll make in 20 slash 20. Um, you know, the American people have full control over the destiny of America.
Speaker 3:16:33They have to just continue to stay engaged and make sure their voices are heard. And look, this process is frustrating and it doesn't always produce the result you want, whether it's at a piece of legislation or a particular election, but it in order to survive, it requires the active participation of everyone. And I think people understand that and we see evidence of it all over the country that people really get. I mean, maybe the most recent example that I think really makes this point is the young people that we saw, um, in Parkland who took this really horrific event in their lives. I mean, when I think about when I was in school, like gun shootings didn't exist. You know, you had fire drills. But we now asking people to do active shooter drills in schools. I mean, just think of the trauma of telling kids to do that, but these young people took this experience and said, you know, we're going to demand the adults to their job to keep us safe and we understand that electing the right people who undertake this responsibility seriously makes a difference and they are demanding that their voices be heard all across this country.
Speaker 3:17:40Excuse me, and I think they're going to make a real difference in this election. They have activated young people and helped make them understand like, look, we can change this if change congress, we can pass common sense laws to protect young people in schools from gun vas, but we need people in Congress who are willing to to have the courage to stand up to the gun lobby and I think the voices of young people and the voices of women are going to be especially important this election. In many ways. I think women and young people are going to save this country.
Speaker 2:18:09I would agree and I think that you're. You're completely right. My observations here, just in terms of interviewing candidates for statewide offices or what have you, is how much of a, even from a strategy perspective, how much a certain candidates are trying to court those groups, um, in a way that maybe in the past it was more about a gimmick. Let's get some optics now. Those are, those are people were actually registered voters who are engaged in the process and spreading the word. And I know that our audience in this podcast is for maybe the demographics software is not totally accurate, but it's younger than certainly you're going to get from the talk radio station in town or watching CNN in the middle of the afternoon. And that's, I think you're right. That's so exciting to think about. Maybe this experience with the 2016 presidential election is going to just begin a reengagement in this process
Speaker 3:18:59a lot of ways. Um, donald trump's election and although he's made an effort to really attack some of the really important institutions, the rule of law and a free press and the things that have frankly made America the envy of the world in so many ways. I think the kind of irony of it is his election and his behavior is causing just the opposite result. We're seeing a renewed understanding of the value of a free press and the kind of a success of the Washington Post and the New York Times and the very thing, the media that he calls the enemy of people has seen a resurgence because people recognize how critical it is. Uh, you know, the way he's tried to support efforts to make it more difficult for people to vote, particularly from communities of color that just the opposite is happening. People are registering in record numbers and voting. So it's sort of ironic that his effort to undermine these critical institutions in our country that are central to our democracy and the active engagement of people and kind of disparaging the free press and disparaging other institutions is having the exact opposite effect. And so that's good, that's good for the country.
Speaker 2:20:11Most certainly. Um, you seem to love your job. You seem to love Rhode Island. Obviously. You were the mayor of Providence immediately following the CNC administration. Well, CNC to and um, I was in high school when that happened, you know, so I still have this image of you as a, you know, maybe as in the general assembly, but certainly as the young providence mayor, um, what's it been like for you since becoming mayor of providence now over well over a decade later, a decade and a half later, I'm having, you know, uranus such an established figure within Rhode Island.
Speaker 3:20:48Do you feel that that comes with the responsibility that you know, you're, you're, you're, you're the truth for a lot of people at this point. I would say that, you know, I look back at those years and the general assembling as mayor and I loved serving in both those roles. I loved the work. I loved being able to help people. I mean, what I love this state, I've lived here my whole life. I see all these roles in government have opportunities to help people. Sometimes it's very specific problems, like an issue that only relates to them they need to fix and sometimes fighting to protect government programs that matter to them or fighting for new laws that I know will benefit people. So I, I kind of realized as a very young person that politics was the place where I thought I could use my talent to make the world in my country a better place and I really feel very privileged and very lucky to have been able to do something I love because, you know, there's lots of people who don't have the privilege of doing having a job they love and that's a real luxury in life.
Speaker 3:21:47So I feel really honored and very grateful for that. Um, I think this, you know, this is a particular moment in our history where I do feel a special responsibility. I have a woman come up to her the other day and she said, you know, congressman, I just want to tell you something. This is, this period of this trump presidency has been so upsetting to me. I can't, I'm having difficulty at my job. I'm seeing a counselor now. I mean really, and she's not the only person that has expressed that. I think there's a lot of evidence that it's been a hard time for, for people in this country and she said to me, but I'm telling you this thing, the only reason I can sleep at night as I know that you are there in Washington fighting as hard as you can for us and it like maybe almost like kind of tear up a little.
Speaker 3:22:34I mean it just this moment of realizing you know, that you have a really important responsibility in this role in moments like this, that people are counting on all of us who serve to stand up and fight for them and protect against the worst excesses of this administration and the terrible policies that my republican colleagues in the house or putting forward. And it just reminded me of something that I, I never forget. That's why I'm there. And I'm, I. It reminds me of one other occasion when President Obama came to me with the House Democrats before he left the hill. And he left the presidency, this was after the election and he said, you know, I'm so envious of all of you. And we thought envious, you know, this was after the election, like, what's to be envious about? He said, you know, this is going to be the most important fight in the history of our country, or at least in our lifetime and you guys are going to be in the fight and I can't be, you know, for, for obvious reasons.
Speaker 3:23:28And so, you know, we all kind of chuckled and rolled our eyes a little bit, but it. But that has stuck with me that President Obama was right. Like this is a moment where it's an incredible privilege to be in this fight because it's an important one and a lot of people are counting on us for it. And frankly, as I said to people all the time, if I were back to practicing and watching this last 18 months, my head would be exploding. Like I couldn't figure out how I would cope with it. I at least have the privilege of getting up every morning and fighting and raising my voice. And trying to mitigate the damage and trying to stop things that I think are really bad or bring attention to them and that's the luxury a lot of people don't have. So I try to make use of every minute I have to do what's right for what island and to raise my voice in this really critical moment.
Speaker 2:24:13What's your relationship like? Just how often, I guess, do you see Congressman Langevin Senators, White House and read just in terms of communicating the pipeline, if you will, from Washington DC to Rhode Island. Is that something that you're, you're kind of in your offices anyway? Is that. I mean, I,
Speaker 3:24:31I think one of the great joys of this job is not only representing Rhode Island and working on issues you love and doing the work that you love, but having a three extraordinary colleagues, I mean to have Senator Reed and Senator Whitehouse and Congressman Lyons Been, uh, to have a delegation where we all kind of share the same values of this deep love of our state and work together really closely on almost everything. I mean, there's very few issues where there's not overlap with each other that we don't do together and uh, you know, to have two senators that are so well respected and so effective and that do such extraordinary work and to have a house colleague the same deeply respected by our house colleagues and someone who I work with everyday and see everyday that's a great, great. It's not only a great joy, but it's also makes us all more effective, um, because when we're advocating for something, it's the whole delegation from the whole state that doesn't happen a lot of states because a lot of states, there are people from different political parties and may have different views on issues, don't work together as well.
Speaker 3:25:34But when we're islands speaks, it's all of us together. So when we're fighting for money, uh, to bring back to a police department or fire department or infrastructure, we're doing it collectively. When we're fighting for legislation, we're doing it collectively. So I think it makes us a more effective delegation. And I feel really lucky to have three great colleagues.
Speaker 2:25:53Last question or last area, I guess the media you made your first appearance on, I think it was your first national Sunday show appearance a few weeks ago. Is that a correct statement? Yes, that was awesome by the way, so thanks. What's your take everyone as obviously as a specific take on the media today is far as cable news and the micro cast their narrow casting that we see. Um, what's your relationship like? For example, my wife is Brazilian in Brazil, they actually view the media as the fourth branch of government. In other words it's held with moral ground and it's like as integral to the process as the supreme court is, for example. Whereas here it's not viewed in that way and it allows for fudging and some of the nonsense you see, but just as someone who is now speaking to a global audience
Speaker 3:26:44through the media, do you, do you trust that your message is not going to be distorted? Well, I mean I think it's really important that people recognize the value of the truth and the media has a responsibility to report the truth. And I think by and large they do a and I think we have to resist very, very strong any effort to try to make the media as the presence, as the enemy of the people. Nothing could be further from the truth. Thomas Jefferson once said, and I'll paraphrase it, but he basically said if I had a choice of a government without a newspaper or a newspaper, without a government, I'd take the newspaper without a government, you know, government, the newspaper and the media. The press plays a really important role in holding government accountable and helping the American people and people in general to see what the facts are.
Speaker 3:27:32And so I think we have to really stand up to protect the media and recognize that all over the world, um, members of the press, there are two journalists being in prison because they reported on the Rohingya, the slaughter by the Myanmar military. So there are journalists all over the world that are being in prison just for doing their job. And we have a president who's calling the media the enemy of the people. So I think we've got to protect the media. We need to respect the work that they do. Obviously there are challenges because we have some places like Fox News as an example that become kind of like state television that's not really reporting news. It's, we're putting a point of view. I think that's perfectly fine. So long as people know that it's a point of view and not the news. And so, um, you know, I think we have to develop a lot better media literacy so people can determine is this a reliable source of information?
Speaker 3:28:20Is it trustworthy, you know, if you know, if it's the providence journal or the New York Times or the La Times or the Washington Post, these are reputable sources or CBS or NBC or CNN and then, you know, Info wars and other things. Everything's you, caroline. So I think we've got to develop as citizens of the world and citizens of this country better media literacy. But I also think Democrats, just as a kind of an aside here, I try to do go on Fox News when I can and I try to encourage my colleagues to do it because the fact that that sort of, you know, has a view which you know, is responded to a particular demographic out there, doesn't mean we should abandon that space completely. I think it's incumbent upon Democrats to go onto those shows and make the contrary argument. Now it's hard and they're unpleasant and almost let you speak and you're not going to change everybody's mind.
Speaker 3:29:08But I do think it's important that we not see those arguments because we have responses that they, those viewers don't often hear. So I think it's important. I do a lot of appearances on CNN and Msnbc and happy to do those. But I also think we have a responsibility in this democracy to challenge people who are giving contrary opinions and you know, and be equipped with good facts and good data and prepare preparation to do it. And I think, you know, we don't see that often enough on the kind of, some of these other networks and I think we have to do more of that. I completely agree. And I've tried to do that with this podcast. It's true. I think if you, if you don't understand the arguments against that, you're arguing against them how you're going to create a better world, right? And you also have to have enough confidence in your views and in the positions you've taken that you, that you can make the argument and enough, you're also have a willingness to listen.
Speaker 3:30:04I mean, I feel passionately about the, I feel passionate about, but I'm always willing to listen. Maybe someone's going to change my mind. Someone's going to say, you know, make an argument. But you have to be willing to listen in this business. And I think, uh, you also have to feel strong enough in your convictions that you can defend the position that you're taking. And you know, I think my training as a lawyer helped me to do that because, you know, I was a criminal offense or, and we'd go into court and have a trial against a prosecutor and it would be a knockdown drag out fight, but when it was over, it was very common that we'd go grab dinner or lunch after the trial. It's like he had a, he or she had a job to do. I had a job to do and we were able to do our jobs, do it passionately, convincingly, authentically, but not think the other person was an enemy.
Speaker 3:30:45And I think we have to get back to that where you can disagree with people passionately but still listen and still not in a sort of denigrate them as human beings. And I think unfortunately see too much of that. Yeah. Someone told me yesterday about a book team of rivals. Evidently Lincoln filled his cabinet with people he defeated in whether it be a primary or in general elections. Um, you go, wow, that's interesting of John McCain is to. The two people gave eulogies were both men who defeated him, prevented him from becoming president, United States, and that's who he insisted speak at his funeral. That tells you a lot.
Speaker 1:31:18Congressman Davis is Selena. Thanks so much for your time. Anything you want to say to the. No. I just hope all your listeners will be sure that they vote in the primary and the general action. Make sure that their voices are heard and then hold everyone accountable who they elect to get the work done. Appreciate your time so much. Thanks so much. As always, thanks for listening to the Bartholomew town podcast. Remember, you can subscribe, rate, and review us on apple podcasts, spotify tuned in, Alexa or wherever you stream content. You may also find us@ourIpodcastdotcomandBartholomewtown.com. Until next time, we'll talk soon.