Project Insulin and Rhode Island’s Early-Stage Startup Advantage

Eric Moyal, founder of Project Insulin, joins Bill Bartholomew to explain how his nonprofit is working to create and sell generic insulin directly to patients at cost. The conversation covers the insulin affordability crisis, why Rhode Island can be a powerful place for early-stage startup growth, and what it takes to build a long-term biotech project in a tough fundraising environment.

00:00 - Introduction to Eric Moyal and Project Insulin

00:08 - How Project Insulin plans to sell insulin at cost

00:42 - The real cost of insulin for patients without insurance

01:11 - Why a few for-profit manufacturers control the market

02:10 - Learning the issue through a partner with type 1 diabetes

03:06 - The statistic that pushed him to get involved

03:36 - Why this is a nonprofit and fundraising challenge, not just a science problem

04:27 - Rhode Island’s push into health and sciences

05:26 - Why Rhode Island was a strong place for early-stage growth

06:23 - Social Enterprise Greenhouse and the accelerator experience

07:41 - Why Rhode Island works best as an early-stage startup ecosystem

08:45 - Why building major pharmaceutical infrastructure in-state is difficult

09:11 - Rhode Island’s interpersonal network as its “secret sauce”

10:33 - The idea of Rhode Island as a pass-through for talent and growth

11:51 - Why not every business needs to become a billion-dollar unicorn

13:34 - Why raising money for a long-horizon nonprofit is difficult

14:54 - Project Insulin’s current fundraising target and development phase

15:46 - Long-term plans for national and global insulin distribution

Transcript

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Bill Bartholomew 0:00

Eric Moyel, welcome to Bartholomewtown.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Thank you. Pleasure to be here. Tell us about Project Insulin. Yeah, so uh Project Insulin is a nonprofit organization that is creating its own generic insulin. We call it biosimilar, but the words are interchangeable, uh, that we're gonna make ourselves and then sell directly to patients at cost, regardless of insurance status. So it'll be one flat rate for anyone and everyone who needs it.

Bill Bartholomew 0:28

So where does this problem start in terms of why is insulin right now something that's unaffordable for so many people? And and how did you see that seize that problem in terms of trying to fill a gap?

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Yeah, so uh just some context for everyone listening. Uh on average, people spend about $100 per vial for insulin. Without insurance, that's about $300 per vial. The average person needs between two to four vials a month. So you're you're upwards of up to $1,200 a month on insulin alone every month if you have insulin-dependent diabetes. That's either type one or uh specific cases for type two. Um and so this is a pretty large uh you know expense, and it doesn't include all the other diabetes-related expenses that someone would have on a month-to-month basis. And so um the problem stems from the fact that there are only a few manufacturers who make insulin, um, and uh they're for-profit companies. So they have a fiduciary duty to make as much money for their shareholders as possible. Uh, and that has kind of led us to a place where when this insulin first came out 30 years ago, um, you know, it was less than, you know, somewhere between $25 and $50 per vial. Uh, and somehow 30 years later, it is now, you know, $300. And it's just a huge increase in price over time, which doesn't really make sense and doesn't follow the trends of uh, you know, the idea is that you have a patent, so while the patent exists, the the drug is expensive, and then over time it should, you know, become less expensive as you recoup your drug development costs. So anyway, a little long-winded there, but just some context for for the the you know what I learned and how I ended up where I am. Uh my partner has type 1 diabetes, and so um I learned it through her. I learned about insulin and things like that. But uh at one point we were having a conversation. Well, actually, I had posted on social media once that um insulins are very expensive, but part of that is due to the changes in technology, right? Like as innovation comes, there are newer insulins, and so um that is why it's expensive. And that's what I thought. That was when I, you know, had six months into our relationship. And she told me, she was like, no, that's not true. This is the same insulin that's been around for at the time, 20 plus years. Uh and so I was like, hold on, why, you know, you wouldn't pay more money for a 96 Corolla, right? Like that the value of a 96 Corolla goes down over time. So uh learned learned about the the issue at that point. And then a few months later, um, I heard about the statistic that uh one in five people with insulin-dependent diabetes ration their insulin. So they use less than they're supposed to. And it just kind of put me over the edge. It was, you know, this idea that this drug that's off patent, it's been around, you know, historically for over a hundred years, the original patent was sold for a dollar because the scientists wanted insulin to be available for everyone who needs it. It just it just all felt wrong. Uh, and so uh that was kind of when I said maybe now is a a time for for me to get involved here and try to do something about it. But that was only specifically because my background's in nonprofit fundraising, and to me, this isn't really a scientific issue, right? The patent expired. So it's not like we have to create something new. It's can we hire the right team uh to go make this product, which is still technically hard, um, and then go through the FDA approval process, and all that is raise enough money and you can fix that issue. And so that is kind of where um, very long-windedly, uh, the the environment that led to Project Insulin. And, you know, six years later we officially started drug development and things are moving forward.

Bill Bartholomew 4:26

Yeah. So that I think that really does quite well encapsulate the problem that you identified and what was, you know, one option, at least in your mind, to try to attack this problem. And this brings us to our, you know, kind of our center point here, which is that look, Rhode Island right now, there's been uh is it a great push? That's up for interpretation, but there's been a push in the health and sciences space to try to advance from an economic development and sort of global leadership standpoint. This has included infrastructure, this is included just even in some cases, just branding, honestly. But part of that also comes through startups and social uh at greenhouse, so social enterprise greenhouse is uh an organization that a lot of our listeners may be familiar with, and I would encourage you to check out the what they do, the work that they do. But Eric, tell us about Providence, Rhode Island, social enterprise greenhouse, and how Rhode Island impacted the course of your project.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Yeah, I mean, I'll say about the Rhode Island startup space, I think it's a fantastic space to uh grow from the very beginning, right? From your your inception through some of that early stage work because uh A, it's a people thing. Rhode Island people in Rhode Island are just warm. Uh they're nice, they want to help, uh everyone knows each other, right? So that you kind of get through that connection pipeline a lot quicker. Um but social enterprise greenhouse was a a major stepping stone for us, I think. Uh when I first moved to Rhode Island, um, I got into the RI Hub. Uh, you know, they give you that free membership. Uh, and I had applied to get into uh, I'm gonna call it SEG. That's the abbreviation for social enterprise greenhouse. Um but uh I I applied to a few SEG programs and I didn't get in because it was just that competitive and there's a lot of people trying to get in and doing good work in the state. And thankfully I kept at it. And uh my second time through, uh about a year later, I did get in and I got into their um accelerator cohort. Um and it was amazing. I mean, the the team at SEG is fantastic. The fact that they give you the co-working space as a part of being in the accelerator was amazing. Um they bring in different uh you know mentors to teach you about different parts of running a business and and you know, marketing and investment and finances. And so uh they really helped me grow as an individual, as an entrepreneur, but also with Project Insolence specifically. And I would say that the, you know, ending it on that pitch night, right? You had a pitch night at the end of your accelerator program, that was really uh kind of the beginning of what ended up being the start of the good momentum that we got in Rhode Island and and took with us as we moved from, you know, I I've moved a few times, so for me it's been in a few different places. But um, yeah, I I think I I can't say enough about SUG and the quality of the people and and the programming that they have, uh especially since I've done other accelerators and incubator programs um around New England and you know, a few national ones as well.

Bill Bartholomew 7:40

Yeah, and I think that when we talk about Rhode Island as the startup or even honestly the micro business through, let's say, seeded startup space, right? There's a lot of similarities there. Basically, anybody that's not like a major retailer or CVS, et cetera, you know, it's in we so often talk about or hear about business, right? That's the that's the buzzword. And that can mean a lot of different things. There are political groups here in Rhode Island that are running on business this year that are that that like don't believe that Donald Trump won the 2020 presidential election, at least in terms of their leadership and they run on business. There's also people who try to uplift businesses on Broad Street in Providence, look at it through a micro business lens and everything in between. But just in terms of your success story and where you are now, obviously on a growth trajectory of that is very real, not hypothetical, not coffee shop. Yay, here's an idea, but actually real. What's your advice to the state of Rhode Island and commerce, Rhode Island, and leadership in general on how to create more project insulins?

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah, I think I mean, what we're doing is is pretty unique, right? And so the infrastructure we need eventually eventually was part of why we couldn't continue in the state. Um, and I'm not sure that building that infrastructure is necessary. Like building massive pharmaceutical plants is billions of dollars, uh, which I now know because we tried to build our own and got a couple quotes for it. I was like, yeah, no, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Um But uh I think Rhode Island is just fantastic at that early stage piece. And so um something that always bothered me was that uh, you know, Rhode Island has a like little brother, little sister attitude towards Boston, and like you're not you're not gonna be Boston. That's not that's not what Rhode Island does. Rhode Island's about like very intimate interpersonal connections and opportunity to like uplift one another uh in a way that's that's special. And I think uh to me, that is the the kind of like secret sauce of growing a business in Rhode Island is the opportunity uh to meet a variety of people and to be like well connected pretty quickly uh in a way that you can't do in other places. I mean, uh the growth in Rhode Island that we experienced was much bigger than the growth we had uh later when we moved to Boston, because there's just so many biotech companies there, right? Like um I I didn't move because of business, I moved for personal reasons. But um, yeah, uh anyway, I I think that that um that interpersonal and that interpersonal opportunity and the connectivity that the state has and how excited people are to help one another. I think that really is the bread and butter of the state. And um, you know, shying away from it or or trying to do something else is uh detriment to the good thing that they have going.

Bill Bartholomew 13:39

Very, very interesting commentary there because there's so much effort put into, or at least people talk about, oh no, you know, so-and-so, you know, went to Brown University and now they've graduated, they don't stay in Rhode Island. Or look, this is a very real conversation around housing, around education, healthcare, et cetera. This is not like a uh a singular lane. But there is a value, or there's almost like a missing metric for the pass-through economic development that comes from somebody, again, that in that space. That could be in the start in the startup biotech space, that could be in the artistic space, as a student, as a visiting professor, military, and whatever it is, there's a lot of opportunity. We miss that. You don't have to stay here forever to contribute to this state. You can grow through the state. And Rhode Island does serve a very specific purpose that is if it maybe never highlighted, maybe you just solved a lot of problems for a lot of people who make a lot of money for the state to try to brainstorm because I think you're right on. I think it's not, it's about what you get in early stage development. And you you're not going to be Boston, New York, or any other major city. So why try instead quadruple down on that that early stage phase?

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Yeah, and and you know, arguments could be made that you know you lose revenue when the the company moves from one state to another, and like um fine, that's that's true. Uh, but like, I don't know. Uh there's gotta be some way to like I'm not here to solve all of the the state's problems, but I do think something that's special is that you know, early stage stuff and and like not every business has to be a unicorn, a billion-dollar business. And so, you know, a 20-30 person business that stays in the state and you know creates more skilled labor and and more opportunities for college interns to have options at in the state as well, and all these other pieces, like that will lead to more growth. You know, it's a much more long-term approach, uh, which most people don't love. But I mean, I think uh given my organization, what we do and how long it takes to move from one state to from one piece to the next, uh, I have that kind of long view. Um, yeah.

Bill Bartholomew 15:56

Yeah, I share that with you. I'd rather grow a garden than, you know, dump you know a bunch of Halloween decorations up and and they're not the same thing, although they might may both be crowded with stuff. So question. In the biotech space right now, in terms of you know how you approach um, you know, the the IP behind your project is it's it's patent, it's development, it's it's a lot of different things. So how much of that is sort of at the whims of I guess what we'll call a tumultuous economic environment globally and even obviously nationally, but certainly on a global basis. How much does a startup get extra walloped by what's happening on a global basis economically?

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, I um not an economist, so with a grain of salt, uh, but personal experience has been that, I mean, it's just hard to raise money. And I don't think that's like a shocker to anyone. Uh, I think that's true in the best of times and the worst of times. Uh, it's hard to meet the right people, uh, finding individuals who are willing to write million-dollar checks to a nonprofit specifically, where, you know, Bill, if if if we were a food pantry, right, if you gave me a million dollars and uh tomorrow I'd be like, great, you just fed, you know, five million people. Congratulations. But with what we're doing, it's like, Bill, I need two million dollars, and in five years, we're gonna save patients, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. But again, you have to take that long approach to it. So uh for us, that's a big, big issue. And I think uh for many startups, the the the the lack of a willingness to invest in something that takes time, uh, I mean, it hurts us all in the end because then the quality of the things that are produced and like the opportunity for high quality things to be produced is uh lost a little bit, right?

Bill Bartholomew 17:47

So what's it uh what's it uh what's your outlook right now in terms of where you want to scale this to before, I don't know, I don't want to put a date on it, but um, if you have a date, what's your outlook?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Yeah, I mean we're we're looking to raise $1.5 million right now um to get through. So we we've started the first phase of drug development. So the to explain that in simplest terms. It's uh if you have if you're trying to make sourdough, you need a sourdough starter. We're building the insulin equivalent of a sourdough starter right now. Um so as we finish through that, the next phase is testing, making sure that you know it's not toxic, that it works properly, that it works similarly to um the product that we're trying to make a generic of. Um and so that's what that next 1.5 million is for. It I mean, long term, our goal is to be a uh manufacturer of insulin that distributes around the country, and then one day around the globe, I mean, there's issues for um insulin availability everywhere, uh, unfortunately. And and the amount of people who need insulin is only growing.

Bill Bartholomew 18:51

So yes, no, no question about that. And uncertain times in health, in public health, that's for sure. Um then it's it is gonna require a multi-pronged response. Projectinsulin.org. Eric Moyel, thanks so much for your time today, and thanks for weighing in on what I think is a really important discussion here in the state as we start to kind of figure out where we're going. We're always doing that, where it's a constant process, but very specifically narrowing in on how startups, if we're gonna say we're gonna be in health and sciences, well, what does that mean? It means we want to do a lot of different things, including sometimes being a pass through for the development of major projects, which uh you're on track to be. Thanks so much for your time.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Absolutely. Thanks a lot, Bill. Appreciate it.